even seen a gun in real life. now he is suing the police. that's it for the b. the dow is up, breaking a losing streak. we're up 27-1/2 or so. "your world" is up next. >> as a number of people on the government dole keeps growing, americans now saying enough. >> welcome everyone, i'm in for neil cavuto. this is "your world." with the growing entitlement rams, government spending up 126%. medicare, excluding premiums, up 262%, and food stamps, up 225%. americans are clearly worrying because 49% of american households are said to have at least one person receiving some sort of government assistance and if this brand new poll is any indication, they have had

absolutely enough. 74% says americans rely on the government too much and not enough on themselves. mr. larry winger says people are saying enough is enough. larry, love the shirt. let's start with this. 49% of households don't pay a federal income tax. when does it stop? and why is it happening? let's do that one first. >> well, i think it's happening for a lot of reasons. i think when you look at this, it's much more than just food stamps and much more than all the other entitlement programs. when you realize that we have nearly 60% of parents who are still supporting their adult children in one way or the other, we have the largest percentage of adult children moving back in with their parents since the great depression, all of those things are indications that we have raised a generation that is more than willing -- in fact are completely happy to let someone else, from the parents to the government, take care of them instead of taking care of

themselves. that's the real problem. we created this mess by teaching them it was okay. >> larry, fair and balanced. so, if 50% of the country isn't paying any income tax and 49% is receiving some sort of benefit, but 74% say enough is enough, does that mean some people are getting benefits don't want the benefits? >> no. that means they're lying. they're just disgusted with the whole thing but not willing to give up their government check, either. look at the jobs report. i think that's ute -- another great indication. 1.8 million people who just stopped looking for a job. how do you is to be looking for a job? don't you have bills, commit. s, a family to take care of? you just quit because it got too hard? well, things are hard and you have to suck it up and power through. we have taught society when it gets hard, it's okay to quit. why wouldn't you quit? the government is out the with

the check to take care of you. >> larry one of the cool things filling in with neil, the producers remember everything. watch this nancy pelosi. 2010. >> we see it as an entrepreneurial bill. a bill that says to someone, if you want to be creative and be a musician or whatever, you can leave your work focused on your talent you skill, passion, as separations, because you'll have healthcare. >> thoughts, sir? >> she ought to be ashamed for saying that, and i'm embarrassed that any american leader would have those words come out of her mouth. it's not okay not having a job. we should have tug our kid that having a job is more honorable than not having a job. we came from a generation where if we told our parents we would rely on the government and be musicians on the street, our

parents would have smacked up upside the head and they should have. >> larry, leave it there. i remember waiting tables, dropping a fork down some lady's back and i was fired at the moment and had to get a paper route. we came from another generation. >> in the last five years alone the number of people on food stamps has jumped by more than 14 million. when the program first began it cost taxpayers $229 million. now it's costing more than $80 billion a year. so, is this getting out of control? jedidiah beeler says, it is, but julie disagrees. julia, i have to start with you. $80 billion. if you add in the other food programs you approach $100 billion. in the last five years is double. >> we have had a recession. food stamps lag a recession so hopefully when we are out of the recession the food stamps will go down, lest we think these people are sitting there eating

ho-hos -- >> for the last year and a half the obama administration keep saying things are getter in just a million -- >> it lags. >> how long in, a decade? >> hopefully as soon as we get out of the -- >> help me out here. >> loopholes in the system. the guy in michigan who won the lottery, won $2 million, and all of his money had been tied up in investments so because of that and because his income didn't register properly he was able to access food stamps. so so many people have their satellite tv and big screen tv and high-end amen it ins -- ameants and still accessing wood stamps. >> according to the odd it for, 1% fraud. >> we're very good friends. >> we are. >> where the world is there 1% waste and fraud? >> fraud in terms of people cashing in food stamp benefits for something else. >> a lot more people than that accessing the benefits -- >> there's a lot of people using

it as a part of the culture of dough people dense -- dependency. this is supposed to be a temporary fix for people out the trying to get a job, pounding the pavement, temporary fix to help them. not long-term dependency aid. >> eight to nine months is the average of people staying on food stamps. it's nine months. by the way -- >> absolutely impossible. if we doubled the food stramp program in the last five years, and they are only on eight to nine months there would be 100% turnover. >> then take it up with the government audit for because that's what they're telling me. >> let's do this. going forward. a lot of of people say things are getting better. that means food stamp programs should shrink. >> hopefully. these people are not pigs. $133 a month the average benefit is. why don't we try to live on $133 a month.

>> cory booker did it. chris christie did it. i understand they all tried. but my problem is when they lower the bar, they makees easier to obtain food stamps they're just inviting people on. >> a lot of people say i want to do something about the entitlement society. but they don't want to give up their benefits. don't affect my life but let's fix the problem. that it is not going to work. the bottom line is since president barack obama took office, 15 million more than americans are on food stamps he has fed this culture of dependency and made it easy for struggling artists or musicians who would say, let me pound the pavement. they don't have to do that because they have a check coming in they are perfect live capable of working for they don't need. that is a problem. >> if the gravy train is good and continues to come in, are you going to vote to change the gravy train, to cut the gravy train off? >> i disagree. i don't think 133 bucks a month is a gravy train. it's 0 what you probably spend per night on dinner.

>> i'm not saying there aren't people that need the help. >> let me give you another statistic. 80% of people on food stamps have either a child, a senior, or their disabled. who gets the job, the kid, the disable end person? the old person? >> what about where people are using the food stamps to buy alcohol dish. >> one percent. >> i have to push back. >> give me a different statistic. >> probably closer to 50. i bet you it's closer to 50%. >> i bet you if you come up with a a stack -- >> i'll bet you dinner. >> bring it, my friend. >> good to see you. we were just told the president just announced a press conference he will hold tomorrow. we don't have details on what the press conference is about but just announced. in the meantime, the president says americans aren't being spied upon, but is a new report telling a completely different story? and matt damon not the first

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the president just announce a new news conference tomorrow. we'll see if he is asked about this because two days ago he said there is no domestic spying program, but in a report today is saying very much otherwise. "the new york times" reporting the nsa is searching e-mails and text messages sent to and from the united states. combine that with news the irs was altering details of investigations done by the drug enforcement administration, and my next guess says american civil liberties are under attack. seems like every other day there's a new development in the nsa, the snooping, the violation of the fourth amendment. talk to us about this new one where the nsa admits if an e-mail sent to and from, they're going look into the e-mail text,

the text of the messages. >> looking at the text, looking at the met -- metta data. the obama administration released an internal report saying hundreds of millions of americans have had their stuff looked through and the foreign intelligence surveillance court toll the nsa to knock it off or they were violating things too regularly. to have obama in that next week say, oh, there's no domestic spying program, it shows not just his own kind of problem with voracity, these people operated without any control for so long, they feel they can stare in your eye and just lie to you, straight up. james clapper did it, the director of national intelligence. obama did it on jay leno. >> listen to jay carney, i believe this is today. >> joe schmo from kokomo wants to know if he sent a e-mail overseas, is it being read, what would you say? >> it's not being read. the information that is targeted

has to do with terrorist threats or potential threats from foreign persons and foreign areas. >> i'm not sure about that. according to the nsa it says they have key words and if they're triggered by e-mail from an american to another american overseas, let's say i say to a friend overseas, i hate bin laden and that triggers a look, they can start looking into hi e-mail. >> sure, and if you send it to a serve issue that is offshore, that a foreign matter. so they're looking at this and searching through and it they're doing it in a way that doesn't have any warrant. ten years ago, john ashcroft said people who are concerned about unauthorized warrantless searches of americans were guilty of baseless his staira, we never do it gist like obama said. the government wasn't to reveal this stuff but a is being forced

to drip by drip and they're lying to us. >> drives me crazy. there are those who shay what about the patriot act? authorizes warrantless looks into your privacy. >> well, it does, actually, section 215 of the patriot act which civil libertarians have been complaining about since september of 2011. gives that kind of open cart blanc. >> isn't this the peat -- patriot act on steroids and human growth hormone. >> it is and they're operating nature legal theory we don't know. the surveillance court handed down an interpretation of the section and won't tell us what that is. people who have seen it or heard about it, like senator ron widen said, you won't believe it but they can't reveal it to us. >> quiz you on the fourth amendment? two most important words. >> seize and seizure,. >> what probable cause. >> official warrants. this is supposed to protect us.

secure in our property, our papers and our things against unreasonable searches. the founders were under more attack than now. they have an idea you have to separate the branches of power so they can watch each other so no one can accumulate so much unchecked power. the executive branch has gone unchecked too long. >> have to leave it right there. is this about to backfire? >> end his parade of distractions and political posturing and phony scandals. >> phoney scandles. >> scandals. >> endless parade of political posturing and phony scandals. >> we'll soon find out. fox news will release a new batch of polls on the, quote, phony scandal issue. do the american people think irs targeting and nsa snooping are phony? jamie weinstein says, not a chance, and the administration should stop labeling these as stuff. jamie, there's a lot of them.

benghazi -- phony scandal or not. >> even if nothing more comes out, it's no a phony scandal. the fact there were warnings about the threats to benghazi and nothing done to above up security, the american people see that as scandalous, but if nothing else comes out, even what we know right now is scandalous. >> the liberals, a lot of people say watergate was a real scandal. i don't know. no four americans dying at watergate. >> we know there were a chain of communications to the state department, to beef up security the, they knew there were warnings of trouble. and it wasn't beefed up. so i think that of itself is scandalous, and there's many more questions about benghazi. but by itself that's scandalous. >> who called for a standdown order and the talking points

would be about the video, irs? >> the fact that tea party groups were targeted, in and of itself, is scandalous, during an election year, prevent them from going about their activities in the way they want to do. and intimidate so many to remove their applications for tax exempt status. what we know right now, even if nothing else comes out -- of course investigations are ongoing but even if nothing else comes out that alone is scandalous. >> the nsa admitted to reading our e-mails. >> again, i think there's no question, again, the american people don't like what they heard about a lot of the nsa snooping. we know from before -- i think a lot of americans would be willing to give up some freedom if they believed they were being protected from terrorism, but what we know is it has been abused. both during this administration and past administrations. that things we gave for security were used not to prevent

terrorism but to snap on us in ways that had nothing to do with terrorist investigations. >> sure. like you said, we know the irs, they admitted they targeted conservative groups so know they have been i can effected. if -- infected. if they're hanging out with the dea, swapping information with the nasa, the fbi, are we not assume that maybe all these organizations may be infected by the same bug? >> yeah. there's so many questions we still don't know about the irs. we know that the seasonal at least goes to the chief counsel's office. now, we don't know if it goes to the chief counsel him, who is appoint by the obama administration, but certainly is farther than what they told to us begin with, which is the cincinnati office. so layers a lot of questions to be answered about they scandal, and what we know right now, that tea party groups and conservative groups were unfairly targeted, that alone is scandalous. >> you would think they'd let us decide what is a scandal and what is not a scandal instead of telling. he is an advocate for public

schools. is matt damon a hypocrite for second his own kids to private ones? why jeb bush says you better believe it. next. how do you do a summer clearance event the dodge way? first wait till summer. then get the cars ready. now add the dodge part. ♪ the dodge summer clearance event. right now get 0% financing for to 72 months and no payments for 90 days on all dodge vehicles. i'm gonna have to ask you to power down your little word game. i think your friends will understand. oh...no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7.

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from the time i was in considering through my high school graduation i attended public schools. [applause] >> and i would not trade that education and experience for anything. >> that video courtesy of the nonprofit gotham school. think matt damons kids go to public school? think again. the public school system is not good enough and is getting schooled. the headline, matt damon refuses to enroll his children in public schools.

why not the same for everyone else? talk to us about why matt damon decided to put his kids in private school after the big speech about his public school education? >> he is a very proud product of public schools. i am, too bit -- by the way and that's why i get concern about them not working for people. it's a brokenrust. we're paying a ton of money for schools that don't often serve ex-especially low-income and minority groups. so he is moving from new york l.a., and though he has in the past been a great advocate for public schools and putting the public back in public schools and fighting against the school choice actions where you can maybe access a private school if you're a low-income kid, he has decided, in l.a., that ain't working for him. he's going to put his kids in private school to which i say, great, i'd love everybody to have that choice instead of spending money on schools that don't work. >> it's not that complicated. there's the charter school

program. the voucher approach. what's the pushback on those. >> the argument from the left and union leaders and folks like matt damon is, we need to invest more in public schools. always about more money and less accountability is what it feels like, and they're offer very explicit about that. the fact is holding schools accountable is part of making them work and times you have to give kids a ticket elsewhere so schools realize shy be serving this kid. if that happens through charter schools, that's fine. that's a form of public schools that can be held combattability -- combatable. i fine if interesting shen the left say we have to invest in book schools and then put their own children in private schools. >> i heard matt damon said the public school system in l.a. was not progressive enough for him. there is a more progressive group on the planet? >> i'm not sure that would be my worry. frankly, i heard from readers, if you look around at any public school system, you will find

some good options for your kids. over the years school shows advocates have made strides in getting charter schools and with a few reluctant democrats and this weird allies in republicans and minority groups and a few democrats, have made some strides in getting some cool options for people within the public school system. you got to find them and got to try to access them, and if he interested in advocating for change in public schools, maybe he good- >> no one asked him to get on the stage and start advocating for public schools and thin theirin lies the hip hypocrisy. >> fighting for kid that are less well off than his kids are and then taking his money and give his kids whatever they need. >> thank you very much.

forget the school of hard knocks. try the school of high fee. more and more public schools, tax fair punnedded, are charging student fees for everything from extra classes to extracurricular activities and now the a aclu fighting back with a lawsuit. regina says what the schools are doing is legal and the attorney, reb beak -- rebecca disagrees. we pay a lot of taxes and the pooing school -- >> why are the public schools asking for parents to come up with 25, and official fees and making students feel they're inadequate if the parents can't afford it. the parents pay taxes for the public education and the system. this is discriminatory. we have some children in the

school that can't afford it, but this is public school. it's not private school. so they shouldn't be forced to pay fees or not be able to play football, not be able to enjoy a science project. it's what we call discrimination. straight up. >> ridge jean narks do you care to way in on this that? >> i disagree. our children are the most important thing we have and if we have to pay an extra thousand dollars to make the education work, pay it. these teachers are very low-paid. these fee goes to keep the good teachers, keep down the class size, and we want -- >> they don't. they're not for the teacher. this is not going for the teacher. >> what i -- [overlapping speakers] >> they make less than $30,000 -- >> nothing to do with what they're making [overlapping speakers] >> hold on, hold on. regina -- >> goes to the budget. i. >> hold on. >> these are extracurricular fees. >> it's not -- [overlapping speakers] >> going to have it -- >> going to let me talk or keep speaking over me and speaking

improperly? >> you're speaking over mitchell was trying to address you. i don't agree. >> hang in there. >> the facts are that these are fees that children have to pay for extracurricular activities. not for their teachers. their teachers are paid out of state and federal funding. the issue with the aclu is because of the state and federal funding, there is discrimination if students have to pay extra money to go to football practice to go to extracurricular signs practice. >> it costs money to go to football practice. hough is the school going to do that and keep paying the teacher? >> the opinion is balancing the budget. >> debt president obama. >> you and matt damon are going to private schools bus public schools don't have the access to make the kid what they need to be to give them this education. what's the big deal with paying the extra money for your kids. >> the parents cab afford it. that's the problem. >> we give hundreds of billion0s of dollars to the public school

system and tenned of billions from the lottery system. half the lottery money goes to things like public schools, and the teachers, you can't say they're well paid. >> they make $30,000. is that well paid? it's minimum wage. >> that's the market. >> absolutely not enough. >> i don't think your number is correct. you're saying in salary, not including benefits or time off -- >> not including benefits or anything lying that. salary. >> but the point is, should my kid -- miskid goes to public school. i had to write out a check for him to play baseball for the school. i think that is absolutely ludicrous. >> how much does it cost for your kid to go to private school? write out that check. >> he is paying taxes, paying tremendous amount of tacks, property taxes to support the public school system and i think it's great his child is in a public school. >> it's expensive. >> we agree. >> children are children issue it should be -- [overlapping

speakers] >> that is called discrimination if a child cannot afford to play -- >> well, close down the school because nobody has money and nobody plays football. how about that? >> why is that? >> we got go, but for 230 years -- you can play football, baseball, without having to write a check. thank you very much. >> sarah palin got a lot of heat for calling them death panels back then but are democrats proving her dead on? look who is siding with her now. what are you doing back there?

ow! that hurt! no, no, no, no. you can't go to school like this, c'mon. don't do it! no! (mom vo) you never know what life's gonna throw at you. if i gotta wear clothes, you gotta wear clothes. (mom vo) that's why i got a subaru. i just pulled up. he did what now? no he's never done that before! oh really? i might have some clothes in the car.

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call now to request your free decision guide. >> sara warned about it and was ripped. guess who is criticizing the death panel. a growing number of democrats moving to repeal a panel. so is dr. howard dean. sarah palin will be my guest this weekend. doc, the list is wrong. democrats saying maybe this isn't such a good idea. didn't we warn them before? >> of course, none of them bothered to go into the doctor's office where we already have this issue where our patients are getting older and older, more and more met medical problems. the secret about medicare is so have the flexibility to order whatever tests you want. i'm not paid as much for seeing medicare patients and they're sicker, so i have to be able to

order tests, but they're going to restrict my reimbursements for some of the things i want to order. that's going to make it harder and harder for me to practice. and then ipad is a panel of 15 bureaucrats who are not practicing physicians. how do they know which test i node. >> the ipad is independence aimed advisory board, and the purpose of the board is to determine what treatment i can get. >> some of them are doctors but not practicing physicians and i findded hard hard to believe they're independent. they're appointed by the president. coming into play sometime next year and going to make decisions that are going to affect medical care and not just medicare. the private insurers always follow suit. if i-pad says they're knowing got to cover this, private insurers won't cover this and

this is rationing if i don't get paid for services. if obamacare pays for you to go in with a common cold, it doesn't have enough money to pay for the cancer treatments or the private treatments that some people need and others don't. so when you get really sick, you might find ipad -- >> are they making decisions whether or not you're saveable? >> i think so. whether i get paid for saving you. and that's why it's called the death panel. it's a rationing board. >> the theory being if you're not getting paid to save me, you're not going to save me. >> i would save you. >> got to make a bottom line decision on the medical practice. >> why would howard dean now, now, year and a half down the road, three years down the road, decide that this is a bad idea? >> i think you have already pointed it out quite astutely. he is jumping on the train.

he stopped practicing medicine a long time ago. he is saying, i'm an m.d., this train has derailed. i want to get on it with the other democrats but they're hypocrites. max bachus was behind the bill and he is calling it a train wreck. he authored it. >> just playing the middle? >> right. he knows that americans -- and democrats know that americans are now figuring out that premiums have to go up. >> those on the far left are upset with howard taken. >> it's predictable. >> you warned them. and don't forget. tune in governor sarah palin will by me special guest saturday morning, 11:30 a.m. eastern. >> so space a little tight on the flight? what could you could pay a little extra space. how about half a asset? -- half a seat.

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>> airlines are packing passengers in so how much would you pay for a little extra space. it's a suggestion that fliers get to buy half the airline seat next to you. he says it's a win-win for airlines passengers, and best fares.com says he is wright. i want a little extra -- not leg room. width room. arm room. >> the way you get it today is by upgrading. this fella has a good idea and if the airlines see this as another fee and they can make revenue out of it, they'll probably go ahead with it. today we see a lot of the airlines giving us the three seats, extra leg room, burt getting -- but getting a seat with the middle seat open is slim to none. we see it in europe a lot for business class, a guarantee the meddle seat will be open. there's one airline -- let me go

back one. think about it. what are the odds you're going to get a nice little blonde, 52, 100-pounds, setting beside you, slim to none. >> no, because my wife would by sitting in that seat. i call up and say i need extra room? they have to find someone wholes wants extra room? >> i think they'll do a section of the airplane, like in the front of the cabin, also have to say, rows three, four, five, all those rows right now will always guarantee the middle seat will be unavailable and then they'll have a price point. i don't think it will be half. right now one of the best insider travel secrets is american airlines. they're getting rid of their md-80s, adding 737-800s but it has 154 seats. now, under the faa rules or the dot rules, they save for every -- anything over 100, for every 50 passengers you must have a flight attendant, this

has 154. so on rows 15, row 17 dish looked at the seat charts today -- that middle seat is closed off and you can get a window and an aisle, and it will kolles you 20, 30-dollar more but better than paying half of the ticket, and american now is flying a lot of 737-800's, so rows 16-17 if you want more butt room. if you want leg room, you have to look somewhere else. >> the airlines would like this as well. fewer passengers, less fuel. >> that's true. and and nevada is -- we saw the same thing with jetblue. they added more leg room. it's -- to the traveling public -- i department know if the leisure traveler is going to

go for it. but the business travelers, who maybe has a little bit more access to money, they would like that comfort level, and again, right now we know one airline is doing it. we see other airlines giving us the legroom and other things like free drinks at the front of the cabin, but this has a chance to fly. if they just -- but they'll have to do a special section and not say, you pick any row and we'll give you half the next seat. >> i got you. no cute little blond setting knicks to me, besides my blond. >> is the gender gap, a pay gap my join? ♪ anything you can do, i can do better. ♪ ♪ >> can she. >> yes i can. >> women do get paid less than men. >> it's time to close the gap. >> should government force it closed?

>> empower women. >> government tries to force equality in sports. >> is forcing equality fair? >> one of ten teams the school is cutting. >> aren't there differences between boys and girls? >> boys are a pain in the butt. >> the battle of the sexes. >> had enough? >> what did you find out? >> yeah. there are differences. when i was the college they taught us, except for sex organs, it's a sexist society. but we are -- our brains are different, our body are different. >> what did you find about the pay gap? you found something very interesting. >> 77 cents, women earn for every buckman earn -- buck a man earns but it's not the same job. we make different choices. men work longer, travel more, take more dangerous jobs, less likely to take time off. you can see women or smarter. they have more rounded lives,

more close friends. men are crazily driven toward money. if they were underpaid, anybody could get rich, hiring only women and undercutting the competition. >> you did something interesting with your audience. >> we took an anonymous poll and the men made more. >> what was the poll like? >> as you come in, write down what you make, and, yes, it was 80-cents in our audience to a dollar for the men. so, slightly more even than the national average. but it was just an illustration. >> and -- but your point is, don't mandate it because then you may be -- what -- over paying women? >> you get student lawsuits and it's a drag on the economy. the market sorts this out. if someone is underpaid, if you discriminate against people you're going to lose out to the company that doesn't discriminate. >> only worked with a gender, not with a racial --

>> market would -- itch you discriminate against blacks and blacks are underpaid, then the company that hired just blacks would have bigger profit margins and beat everybody else up. the market solves so much we think only government can solve. >> that's tonight? >> tonight. >> going to watch. thanks. >> coming up,. >> shows the american people we stand for conservative values and we -- [applause] >> republican lawmakers getting an earful at home, conservatives want them to defund the healthcare law but is that a fight republicans can win? two of them ready to start the fight right here. coming up next. ♪

over the debate to defund the health care law going viral. >> defund obama care, yes or no? i want yes or no. >> no. >> will you make a stand to get service back on board. >> it doesn't matter what harry reid. we need to show american people we stand for conservative values. >> i'm going to start with you. you say don't fight this fight. why? >> let me stipulate, eric, that i really like and respect my friend, monica. we have a difference of opinion here on tactics, not principles. i dislike this law as much as anybody else. i think it is destructive and

bad for the country. how do you go about weakening, run raveling and appealing it. if you are going to the defund route using government shut down is a very high risk, no reward proposition because it's not going to work. you have harry reid who runs the senate. president obama in the white house. if you look at polling you see two things, the american public is consistently opposed to the health care law but also fearful of shut down. you don't want to let democrats muddy the waters by crossing the wires. >> there is another school of thought. is this by any means necessary. >> you are dealing with a highly unpopular law. you have a vast majority of the american people who want this repealed. it is wrecking the economy. it is already driving up unemployment and will bankrupt the nation. if the republicans can't drive a

stake in the ground on this issue then there is no hope for the republican party on any other issue. this is absolutely a give me. does that mean be stupid about the tactics? absolutely not. you have to be smart about this. let's understand something. the majority of the american people want obama care defunded. we don't lose because we take a stand. we lose because we don't fight. >> i don't disagree with that. is the defunding mechanism and using the expiration of the temporary budget the right moment. monica, you described the ted cruz, marco rubio approach. mike lee made a compelling case. then i listened to the senate exchange a couple of weeks ago. tom coburn came out and said what we should really do is try to delay this law and use its own failures against it and force the democrats into a bunch of really tough votes on, for

instance, delaying the individual mandate task. that is a basic fairness issue. if you delay for big business you should delay for small business. you should refuse to spend a dime on the issues. the american people won't tolerate a law that puts their own, you know, information at risk be it information or financial information or lots of subsidies to people who don't qualify for it. there are ways to have a fight but have it in a way that it might succeed. >> i understand the argument. and we are basically all on the same playing field here. my argument is that we should stop playing on the playing field of the democrats at a fear of being pounded by the media which we will be pounded by the left media no matter what.

that peace meal i have a feeling that is what the republicans will do and it may end up working. if you go down that road you will be stuck with obama care forever. if hillary runs and wins that is the end of the story. this is the last shot of uprooting this thing. afterwards you can try to peel off that and this. we are stuck with obama care. this is the last shot. >> i think you can begin with both. some people are arguing that the cruz, if you will, approach is the opening offer in this dampt that is going togo on. if you play that all the way out and bring the country to a brink of government shut down people will not like that and will really complicate the message. >> we have to leave it there. it is a great discussion and on going. we will bring it back. it will be the hot topic. and remember catch governor

sarah palin on cashing in on saturday. we will have her first reaction to more democrats agreeing with her warning about a death panel in the health care law. i will see you there and see you on "the five."